Leah Segedie on the Reality About PFAS and Easy methods to (Considerably) Keep away from Them

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Katie: Hi there, and welcome to the wellness mama podcast. I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com and wellnesse.com. That’s wellness with an E on the top. And I’m right here at present with Leah Segedie, who helps girls and mothers make safer client selections for his or her households. And she or he is the creator at mamavation.com. And on this episode, we discuss particularly about one thing referred to as PFAS, that are chemical substances which can be present in all types of family merchandise. We go deep on this at present, however we speak about what they’re, why they’re thought-about endlessly chemical substances, how there are over 10,000 within the surroundings, and the way they have an effect on the physique in a number of alternative ways. We speak about how testing could be very nuanced, and the way even pure and natural merchandise can have traces of those chemical substances, how one can keep away from them with out going loopy and a lot extra, very, very fact-packed episode. I do know I discovered lots. I hope you’ll too. So let’s be part of Leah. Leah, welcome again. How are you?

 

Leah: Hey, thanks for having me on Katie, so good to see you once more too. I by no means get to see you.

 

Katie: Likewise, I really like that we do video now. For anyone listening who didn’t know, there’s video on YouTube that you just guys can really watch our faces whereas we discuss. I believe most individuals nonetheless hear on podcast apps, nevertheless it’s enjoyable to get to see your face. Really feel prefer it makes it extra private. And such as you mentioned, it’s been some time since we received to catch up. And we’re going to get to catch up in-depth on a really specific challenge. However earlier than we do, I’ve a observe in my present notes that you’ve hip dysplasia and are mainly a human pretzel. So I’d simply love to listen to a bit of bit about this story first.

 

Leah: Okay, so there’s a genetic hip situation in my household. I’ve it, my mom has it. We don’t know additional than that as a result of my mom is adopted, nevertheless it’s hip dysplasia. Now, most individuals have heard of hip dysplasia as a result of they’ve a canine. And that canine has hip dysplasia, and it’s a bit of wiener canine or one thing. And so the people who have heard about it are like, “Sure, my canine has that.” And no, I’m not a canine. However sure, that illness does occur in people. However there’s two varieties of people who it’s actually frequent in, Native American Cherokee Indian, and the Sami, who’re in Norway, Finland, and Sweden, they usually’re the reindeer folks. And I completely come from a Nordic, so it’s completely coming from the Sami. And so they have a lot of it, it’s been written up in Nationwide Geographic and stuff, so you possibly can Google it. However mainly, what it means is my hips come out of the socket, there’s about this a lot room in my socket that’s simply open. So I can simply pop it out of socket at any time when I need.

 

Now, after I’m operating, that’s dangerous, as a result of it doesn’t really feel good. However the cool factor is, it makes me very limber. If you happen to can think about me being pregnant, like 9 months pregnant, and with the ability to put my foot again right here after I’m stretching. Like private trainers freak out once they see this proper? And it’s completely cool for me. So I’m very versatile and I could make myself a pretzel by placing each of my toes right here. But when I do it, if I get the second up, I simply go ahead, so the one place I wish to do it’s within the mattress. As a result of you already know, I don’t have the…I simply appear to be a humorous toy after I do this. However it is vitally attention-grabbing and humorous to speak about. However sure, I can put my toes proper again right here and like a human pretzel. Completely.

 

Katie: That’s humorous. And one among my…

 

Leah: If nobody has identified me then now they’re simply gonna know that I’m Leah Segedie, the human pretzel, which I discover superb.

 

Katie: Effectively, and one among my favourite journey recollections of all time was really visiting northern Finland and getting to fulfill the Sami tribe. They’re a number of the most fascinating folks I’ve ever met and completely stunning the best way their life-style is, very completely different than mine in a really heat local weather. And it was so, so cool to see. In order that’s cool and you’ve got a tie to them as properly.

 

Leah: Yeah, I’ve a tie them after which…however I’ve extra of my kinfolk that I do know which can be in Sweden, however they’re extra within the metropolis now. And Bergen, Norway too, I’ve a number of kinfolk which can be in Bergen, which is admittedly cool to go to as a result of the fjords are simply superb. It’s a must to go there as soon as in your lifetime.

 

Katie: I’ll put it on the checklist. And I really feel like I might speak about that every one day lengthy. However we even have one other vital matter that I believe can be actually related to lots of people listening, even when they don’t notice it’s going to be so related to them. And I do know that you’ve been doing an excellent, tremendous, tremendous deep dive into this matter, which is why I used to be so excited to speak to you about them at present. So I’d say let’s begin actually, actually broad and simply outline the important thing time period that we’re going to speak lots about at present, which is I hope I pronounced it proper, PFAS?

 

Leah: It’s referred to as, you possibly can consult with it as PFAS or PFAS. However PFAS might be what you’re going to listen to most individuals say P-F-A-S, so it’s simply an abbreviation they usually’re simply placing it collectively. So primarily, after we’re speaking about PFAS, we’re speaking about over ten thousand chemical substances and a chemical class. And so they all have fluorine and carbon in them of their bond. However you’ve heard of those chemical substances as a result of it’s all of the stain-resistant, waterproof, grease-proof chemical substances that now we have been sort of swimming in for many years. Now, these chemical substances was regarded as secure, you already know, inert, like okay, however within the final couple a long time, we discovered that they’re persistent, which suggests they don’t go away. Scientists don’t even know what the half-life of those chemical substances are. That’s why they’re known as endlessly chemical substances. These endlessly chemical substances can final in your physique for a few years or a long time. They simply actually don’t know the extent of all of it and why as a result of there’s 10,000 of them and the impartial scientists who had been coming within the backend making an attempt to see in the event that they’re secure, it’s been lots and lot a number of dangerous information. So should you’ve heard about carpet not having PFAS in it anymore, or clothes firms popping out and, you already know, engaged on PFAS options, or when you have thrown out your Teflon cookware, that’s one other instance. These are all examples of PFAS chemical substances that now we have had in our lives for many years. And now we perceive how extremely problematic they’re.

 

So what I’m doing proper now could be, and thru Mamavation, is admittedly making an attempt to construct up some consciousness round girls, in order that they know what to search for and know how one can keep away from them. And the toughest a part of this case is it’s unimaginable to utterly keep away from them. You would need to reside…you couldn’t even go to, I imply, Iceland, or the place the polar bears are, you’d nonetheless discover them there. So that you actually can’t keep away from them. That’s as a result of they’re persistent, they usually get all over the place. However what we are able to do is we are able to make educated selections and selections in our house, and decrease the quantity that we’re uncovered to, and most of all our youngsters are uncovered to as a result of that’s the place that is actually, actually vital is the subsequent era.

 

Katie: Yeah, I do know, we’re very aligned on that, and the significance of, in lots of areas, bettering issues for our youngsters. What are a number of the problematic areas we see with regards to these and well being? I do know, like, we’re nonetheless doing analysis on this and, such as you mentioned, a number of this analysis is just within the final couple of a long time. However what do we all know so far as how this impacts human well being?

 

Leah: So to start with, it’s an androgen mimicker. So it goes into your physique and your physique really thinks it’s a hormone for males. It thinks it’s testosterone, so it thinks it’s androgen. So for boys, little boys and males, that is worse than for ladies, it’s actually dangerous for ladies, nevertheless it’s worse for males. So simply give it some thought by way of that, you don’t want additional testosterone in your physique. However should you’re a person, and also you get additional testosterone in your physique, your physique says, “Okay, accomplished, I’ve produced sufficient.” And so for a person, it brings down your testosterone, which is one thing that’s actually dangerous should you’re making an attempt to have a child, otherwise you’re making an attempt to breed, you already know. The opposite factor that it does, it’s actually problematic, that’s linked with every thing else is it kills your immune system, primarily, it brings down your immunity so that you just can not battle off illnesses.

 

Now, right here’s an instance of one thing of how that is taking place. Now, I don’t understand how many individuals are professional or anti-vaccine or no matter. However what I’ll say, and that is very, very, very sound science, that the extra PFAS you have got in your system, the much less probably vaccinations will work inside your physique as a result of it’s bringing down your immune system, your physique simply can’t do it. In order that’s a number of the stuff that they’re discovering, oh, inside the final three, 4 years is that they’re infants, and the way infants reply. And I don’t know in the event that they’ve accomplished this in adults, however they’ve undoubtedly accomplished in kids. And so they know that the extra you have got in your physique, and keep in mind, this may occur in utero since you’re pregnant, the much less probably you possibly can reply to one thing like a vaccine, or another kind of medicine that’s like that, that’s alleged to deliver up your immune system. In order that’s one factor you actually wish to watch out about.

 

They’re additionally linking it to metabolism points and sort 2 diabetes. In order that they’re linking it to kind 2 diabetes, particularly in girls. So there’s a number of girls strolling round who’re having points and it might have one thing to do with the quantity of PFAS that they’ve of their system. After which, in fact, cancers, there’s a number of cancers that is linked to, like prostate most cancers and people sorts of issues, which is smart should you notice it really works like an artificial androgen in your physique. In order that’s sort of the totality of it. The issue that we’re actually, actually coping with is, you already know, what’s taking place to us can be taking place to the earth. It’s persistent on the market, it’s getting within the soil, it’s getting within the groundwater, it’s getting in our client merchandise, it’s getting in all types of issues.

 

And so to be aware that that is on the market, however not petrified, proper, since you don’t wish to stress your self out to the quantity that you just’re making your self sick, proper? However on the earth of, these are chemical substances that I wish to keep away from, it is a 10, and this is sort of a 3, PFAS is increased up there, it’s extra of an 8, 9, or 10 is what I’d take a look at first earlier than you determine some…I don’t know, should you’re frightened about one thing like sodium benzoate in your shampoo versus PFAS in one thing, don’t even fear concerning the sodium benzoate. You realize what I imply? Like, these varieties of issues. That’s a much bigger class that you just simply wish to keep away from.

 

Katie: Yeah. So many vital factors I believe you’ve simply made. And I believe what I’d simply spotlight is whether or not individuals are in favor of vaccines or they’re not, I believe that’s its personal separate dialog, however the vital similarity there’s that in each instances, whether or not you’re speaking pure immunity or vaccine immunity, you want a functioning immune system to create that impact. And so I really feel like that’s really a commonality. It’s really easy for that to turn out to be a polarizing challenge. However in each instances, it’s like how can we assist the immune system in pure methods in both of these instances, and that’s one thing we are able to really all agree on. And so it is a piece of that puzzle. I consider a number of similarities like plastic-type chemical substances, for example, as properly, these are very problematic, they’ve now saturated the planet, they’re storing in our our bodies, which additionally brings up the query, how if potential in any respect can we get these out of our physique as soon as we’ve been uncovered?

 

Leah: You’ll be able to’t. Effectively, right here’s the arduous factor, it builds up. So it’s a kind of chemical substances that we don’t have any proof of something with the ability to take it out of our physique. That’s the arduous half. Proper? And that’s absolutely the reality. If folks inform you the other, I don’t understand how supported that’s by the information, proper? So that is a kind of distinctive chemical substances that doesn’t function like different chemical substances, you already know, a number of these nasty, persistent chemical substances are trapped in fats. So should you can pull it out by means of the fats, then you possibly can pull it out of the physique, that is repelled by fats. So it simply actually operates very in a different way in your physique, and the reply is they simply don’t know.

 

So what the best-case situation is true now could be to keep away from it as a lot as you possibly can, select merchandise that don’t have it, be very cautious of it whenever you’re pregnant, after which when your kids are about 5, and so up till that, that’s whenever you’re simply you already know, searching for it, avoiding it. After that, you don’t need it, however in fact, you already know, hormone-disrupting chemical substances are worse throughout hormone adjustments in the course of the physique. So the worst time is prenatal. In order that’s when every thing is altering and it right down to the second, the minute, you already know, issues received to only align proper. The second half is whenever you’re out and it’s 5 years, you already know, your physique has like pure defenses it builds up doesn’t actually have that till you’re over 5.

 

Now, the third time in your life, for girls particularly, and for males, is whenever you undergo the change, proper, you begin to turn out to be a lady otherwise you turn out to be a person, that’s a time when, as a mom, you wish to begin to consider this, regardless that they don’t care, you continue to wish to give it some thought, proper? After which in direction of the top of your life, for girls it’s whenever you undergo the change once more and also you cease with the ability to, you already know, have a child. And for males, I don’t know when males undergo, you already know, that change, somebody ought to inform me, however I’ve three boys, it will be good to know, really. However these are crucial occasions so that you can begin enthusiastic about these items, when these varieties of folks…you already know when you have got kids in the home.

 

Katie: Yeah, and I believe the steadiness, such as you mentioned is vital, like keep away from it at any time when potential, however to not the purpose that it’s inflicting stress, which we additionally know is extraordinarily dangerous to well being. After which from there, I all the time consider, particularly after we’re speaking about chemical substances, we don’t really know how one can get out of the physique. It’s like assist the pure detox pathways in any means potential. After which attempt to preserve a balanced stress degree and never be stressing about it past that. So I’m a giant fan of issues like sauna, simply primary hydration, consuming meals like inexperienced leafy greens that bind to extra phytoestrogens and different chemical substances within the physique.

 

Leah: And poop, proper? As a result of all of the dangerous stuff comes out whenever you poop, you wish to do this, proper? I’m speaking about poop and this, poop and PFAS is hilarious. However we don’t know if it comes…I imply, we simply…you already know, they haven’t accomplished research on that but. However I believe it’s as a result of they’re so overwhelmed proper now making an attempt to determine the ins and the outs of all these chemical substances. You had been saying one thing about plasticizers. Satirically, it’s additionally a plasticizer. As a result of there’s an entire class referred to as PTFE, which is on these Teflon pans, which is sort of like, which is a polymer. And mockingly, you already know, after I do testing, there are not any checks to search out all of those polymers. So after I’m testing for these chemical substances, and I’m searching for over 10,000 of them, the sort of testing that I’m working is extra of a spot verify. It’s seeking to see if these chemical components are there, it’s not telling you what particular PFAS it’s as a result of it’s unimaginable. There’s solely about 90 chemical substances you possibly can take a look at for at a extremely good business lab. Most of those labs which you can take a look at for will solely be capable of take a look at for perhaps 16 to 30. Nevertheless it’s in a college lab, they will in all probability discover about 150, however that’s it for compound testing and discovering out precisely what it’s.

 

The opposite choice is what you see a number of NGOs doing and us doing is we search for fluorine in any product, proper? And so you then function one other take a look at that pulls out the fluoride from the fluorine, which is the pure and leaves the artifical, and we search for one thing referred to as natural fluorine, which isn’t a beautiful factor. After I say natural by way of chemistry, it doesn’t imply the natural requirements. No, it sort of means the other, it means man-made. So I’m searching for the man-made fluorine. While you discover that, there’s sort of solely two choices. One is PFAS, which it’s very prone to be, the opposite one is fluorinated prescription drugs as a result of 25% of pharmaceutical merchandise are all fluorinated, so these are the 2 issues that I may very well be discovering. The testing that I function is a extremely excessive take a look at. It appears at 10 components per million. Now, regardless that I’m saying components per million, and that’s actually tiny, it’s really a bigger quantity as a result of once they’re testing in water, they’re wanting all the best way down within the components per trillion, which is sort of a drop in three Olympic dimension swimming pools, proper? And so mine can be perhaps a drop in a daily pool or one thing like that, proper? So we’re far bigger, and we’re not wanting in water, we’re wanting in client merchandise, like private care, something that may be burned, primarily, as a result of that’s how the take a look at is, burns issues, you already know. So if it could’t be burned, we are able to’t use that testing technique. Then there’s different issues we are able to take a look at.

 

Nevertheless it’s additionally actually tough to search out, and you already know, the devils within the particulars, should you can’t discover it and isolate it, then can they regulate it? I don’t know. In order that’s the place I really feel like I’m sort of standing within the center right here. I’m sending a number of merchandise off to the lab and I’m beginning with merchandise that we might buy that may be pure, you already know, sending these off first as a affirmation as a result of my viewers desires to know concerning the issues that they’re already buying first, after which they wish to find out about every thing else. And you’d be sort of stunned, within the pure business, how a lot of this chemical we’re going to search out. There’s a number of causes behind that.

 

One of many causes is, like for example, should you’re shopping for natural meals, there’s nothing within the natural requirements to stop them from utilizing FDA-approved components in manufacturing. And so they don’t have any requirements behind that, and I simply confirmed that once more final week as a result of I used to be, you already know, emailing them, I’m like, “Oh, I can’t discover something within the requirements.” And so they’re like, “It’s not there.” And so they’ll say to me one thing like, “Effectively, you need to, you already know, stress the FDA to take these out of…you already know, as accredited oblique components, as a substitute of coming down on us.” And I’m like, “I believe you need to in all probability repair this within the requirements, I simply assume you need to.” However that’s simply my opinion.

 

So it may be in something, primarily. And should you check out the FDA web site, on what’s accredited for a meals contact kind of substance, there’s a number of polymers which can be accredited, polymeric PFAS. So meaning these are PFAS chemical substances which can be made up of all these various kinds of monomers. So it’s prefer it’s a PFAS manufactured from PFAS, and likewise, nevertheless it turns into like a plastic, proper? So we’re going to see this, in all probability, I’m pondering, since there’s so a lot of them which can be accredited by the FDA, that’s in all probability what we might in all probability be seeing in meals, you already know, kind of producing. I’ve by no means been in a position to isolate and discover it as a result of these checks are simply not accessible. However I preserve seeing it in all types of merchandise. And I’m actually completely happy to do that testing as a result of not solely do I wish to know, however as soon as I began testing, everyone else wished to know as properly. So it’s an awesome service that we’re in a position to present for folks at Mamavation. I’m actually completely happy to have the ability to do that.

 

Katie: I’m going to go line by line with some frequent merchandise and like, undergo what you discovered on the testing. However earlier than we get into the extra detailed half, I’d love to listen to what are a number of the frequent sources within the house surroundings that some folks listening…particularly lots of people listening are already extra naturally minded, like your viewers as properly. What can be a number of the frequent sources and the way can we begin to keep away from it within the house?

 

Leah: So the primary place goes to be you’re going to eat it and drink it, that’s the place they nonetheless assume you’re getting the overwhelming majority of that is. A variety of this might be cookware, so when you have Teflon-based cookware or nonstick cookware in any respect, I’d keep away from that. Clearly, I do know you’ve received nice content material about that and I’ve received content material about that, that had been sort of shoving you guys off of nano-based cookware and nonstick cookware. In order that’s one place. You additionally wish to search for it in your small kitchen home equipment, as a result of you’ll discover it in issues like air fryers, you’ll discover it in issues like toasters, and it’s not on the meals contact floor, it’s exterior. And the loopy factor about that’s if it’s on the partitions on the skin, if it will get too scorching, it could disperse into that air so it’s nonetheless sort of a problem. So we’re proper now working by means of these merchandise for air fryers and all types of various issues. I’d simply say name up the corporate, look and double-check to guarantee that they’re not including something to those merchandise on the surfaces. Undoubtedly not meals contact, meals contact can be the primary half, however that’s what I search for.

 

Meals packaging is one other challenge, issues that we don’t consider like parchment paper. I discovered it in parchment paper. So there are some parchment papers which can be manufactured from silicone and there’s some parchment papers which can be manufactured from PFAS. And so they, a few of them generally they’ll inform you, however you bought to be seeking to see which of them, and simply to sort of assist out your folks proper now as a result of I do know that you just’re going to ask me which of them are secure. If You Care, we examined that particular model, it’s the brown wrapper that appears sort of recycled, that one we didn’t discover something in. One other Finnish firm, which known as Gifbera, after which one other one referred to as Katbite, which I believe is Korean, these are all accessible on Amazon. So If You Care, Gifbera, Katbite, these we examined, and we didn’t discover something, however we did discover it in Reynolds. And we did discover it in Kirkland, so Costco. So these are meals packaging.

 

However right here’s like, a number of occasions whenever you’re going to get this in your meals packaging, it’s going to be extra of a problem of I went out to eat, or I’m utilizing one thing that’s processed. So the reply is the extra you possibly can prepare dinner from scratch at house, the extra you’re going to have the ability to eliminate these contaminants with out even figuring out about it as a result of a number of occasions it has to do with the processing of the meals in some way, and the way these chemical substances, be in polymers or no matter, are entering into every thing. So the extra you possibly can prepare dinner by yourself…once more, I believe that’s in all probability one thing that you just love to listen to, the extra you possibly can prepare dinner utilizing substances that you already know about, the higher off you’re.

 

One other actually huge space is family mud. This isn’t one thing that you’d take into consideration. However you already know, your mud is then analyzed. Your family mud has been analyzed at a lab, not yours particularly, however different folks’s. And it accommodates a number of hearth retardants, phthalates, and PFAS. And that’s coming off of your electrical tools in your home. So your tv in all probability has some PFAS within the wiring, perhaps has it someplace. And when that plastic will get scorching, a number of these plastics have hearth retardants and different varieties of issues inside them. Now, over time, and I imply, over years, because it will get scorching, they sort of emit into the air, and these particles are extremely magnetized in direction of mud. In order that they stick with the mud they usually fall, proper?

 

So how do you get this out of your home? I’d say simply mud, I hate that reply however that’s actually the reply. The extra you mud, you already know, the cleaner you retain your home, the much less probably your kids are going to be uncovered to this. Now, I can’t cease them from like, you already know, being on carpet in case you have got previous carpeting with PFAS on it, there’s nothing I can do for that different than simply vacuum a ton, you already know, to get that stuff out of it, it’s going to break down over time and be launched. So vacuum as a lot as you possibly can, these varieties of issues. Get an air air purifier, a number of the finest air purifiers are on the market. Although I do know those that we suggest are in all probability additionally going to be pulling in PFAS as a result of in the event that they’re pulling within the mud, that’s the place it’s, proper? So that you wish to eliminate the mud.

 

Make-up and private care, it is a actually tough challenge. Earlier this 12 months, they did an investigation not me, however the precise scientists, proper? And they also checked out over 300 typical, principally typical make-up merchandise they usually discovered it overwhelmingly in make-up, give it some thought like this, stays longer, waterproof, you already know what I’m saying? You need your make-up to remain in your face and never go wherever and the extra we’ve demanded that the extra they put in PFAS. So that you wish to sort of search for issues that don’t have any claims about long-lasting, don’t have any claims about being waterproof.

 

I’d say we discovered about six or seven completely different manufacturers of make-up within the pure world that I didn’t discover, you already know, any natural fluorine on the ranges we’re searching for. However most of even the pure magnificence merchandise, you already know, make-up manufacturers, it’s like…like, I used to be a number of issues, mascara and lip gloss so to talk as a result of I knew that these are like what everybody’s utilizing on daily basis, proper, lip gloss, after which if it’s basis, it’s like next-level dedication, proper? So we simply went within the first cross dedication, and in some manufacturers, we discovered it not of their mascara however discovered of their lip gloss or vice versa. So it was actually tough to sort of be capable of say this model or that model as a result of we needed to do a number of testing to determine that out. So make-up I’d say, and different than simply, you already know, following me and what I’m testing there’s no different reply to make-up as a result of nobody’s placing that info on the market. Even the scientists who had been it, they’re not likely like granting you the uncooked knowledge to have the ability to work out which one they examined however that’s why we did it.

 

One other factor is like water, look into your water. It is a actually huge deal as a result of should you reside by a navy base otherwise you reside by an airport that is actually vital, navy bases and airports have been utilizing firefighting foam to place out grease fires which have PFAS in them and it has seeped into the groundwater beneath and has contaminated a number of groundwater by these bases. So should you reside by an airport otherwise you reside by a navy base, I’d simply exit and get a water air purifier regardless, don’t even wait. As a result of the reply is it’s in all probability going to be there and it might not be a kind of PFAS that we are able to acknowledge simply but. You realize, as a result of that’s the opposite drawback with water is, we aren’t as much as testing in any respect. So I’d simply assume, you already know, that that’s how I’m working proper now could be I’m simply assuming, regardless that our water system doesn’t have something in it, it’s like, yeah, you solely examined 16 of them, you already know, there’s like 10,000 on the market, you already know, that’s how I really feel like there’s a giant gaping gap. So water, work on water.

 

Clothes is one other huge one, however the reply to clothes is we don’t know the reply behind dermal contact. So I’ve a number of advisors who work on this and a few of them are working behind the scenes to growing strategies for testing. A few of them, you already know, they’re working at various kinds of phases in various kinds of methods with this chemical. However the one factor that all of them agreed on was we don’t know sufficient about dermal contact. We don’t know if one thing rubs up in opposition to your pores and skin, and it’s a PFAS chemical, will it get in? How will it get in? How a lot we’ll get in? We don’t know.

 

And since we don’t know, we are able to’t make any statements about that. So the reply is we don’t know. However the place are you going to search out it? Something that’s stain proof, keep away from issues which can be stain proof, completely 100% as a result of that’s the place it’s going to be. It’s in a number of jackets waterproof. We did an investigation on jackets, so should you go to Mamavation…I want I might inform you each single one, nevertheless it’s very complicated on the market proper now to search out out what’s PFAS-free, after which what’s just a bit part of PFAS-free. A few of these firms which can be producing clothes, aren’t wanting on the huge chemical class. They’re solely this over right here, they usually say, “We’re freed from PFC.,” however they’re forgetting all this different stuff over right here, you already know.

 

And there’s some certifications like Bluesign, for example. Bluesign licensed is a kind of certifications that can permit sure varieties of PFAS chemical substances within the certification and but they sort of make a declare that they’re PFAS-free. So it’s complicated for the buyer and the explanation it’s complicated for the buyer is the scientists have simply sort of gotten on the identical web page about the place this chemical is and what we’re going to contemplate as a part of the chemical. So I don’t wish to say it’s all the companies’ faults, I’m saying that they’re doing what’s within the legislation, you already know, once they’re making these statements, however the statements are altering as a result of the science is altering. And because the science is altering generally the businesses are two, three years behind, you already know, the mantra, the way it’s described. And so I’m operating into a number of that with jackets, like play couches, play modular couches, you already know, something like that, that may have like a stain-proofing about it. So simply be searching for that.

 

Tents and out of doors tools. Oh, gosh, I can’t…my cousins in Norway are going to snicker at me, however there’s one model that we love a lot. And it’s received a J in it, I’ll put it in your notes, your present notes. It’s like a Swedish identify and I can’t pronounce it as a result of I don’t communicate Swedish. And it’s received a J in it and I’m gonna simply completely butcher it. However there’s a number of European manufacturers that as a substitute of utilizing PFAS, like on their tents, for example, they use beeswax and paraffin proprietarily put collectively and it does a really comparable or just about the identical factor. These merchandise are extra dear, you already know, you’re not going to discover a low-cost tent that’s PFAS-free with, you already know, extra pure…and I do know paraffin isn’t pure, however like, you already know, it’s higher than PFAS. These varieties of mixtures which can be much less problematic to the surroundings in a reasonable means but, hopefully the long run will change that.

 

Then additionally, you already know, it’s in automobile wax and surfboard wax, these varieties of issues, and carpet and flooring. We did a bamboo investigation, we checked out a bunch of various bamboo floorings and we solely discovered one which didn’t have detections out of like eight or 9. So I’ve been enthusiastic about this by way of what’s round us. You realize, should you’re going to be doing flooring, for example, you already know, we went after bamboo and we regarded particularly at bamboo as a result of why? I’m like, it’s inexpensive, it doesn’t dent, you possibly can stroll round together with your heels and so I used to be making an attempt to love, you already know, clear up all the issues after which we did discover one model. Nevertheless it’s tough. It’s actually tough to keep away from it, you already know, grandstand overarching, eat out much less, mud extra, and prepare dinner from scratch as a lot as you possibly can. These are the three issues that I’d say would in all probability do probably the most bang on your buck and simply look out for locations who…like should you go to mamavation.com, we’ve accomplished an investigation on like a number of issues, not every thing but, however on a number of issues. And that’s the…I’m making an attempt to reply that query, the place is it, how do I keep away from it? And I’m sort of going class by class to determine it out as a result of each class is admittedly difficult.

 

Katie: Yeah, that jogs my memory, within the labeling, like, we began…such as you mentioned, we’re seeing some which can be labeled as “freed from” sure ones of those, nevertheless it jogs my memory of when BPA turned well-known, after which it was like BPA-free. However these all had BPS or BPAF or different ones, that are as problematic, the place we’re now discovering, in some instances, worse. And so simply because there are some that label now doesn’t essentially imply, such as you mentioned, that they’re secure.

 

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And I do know out of your website, you’ve accomplished investigations into all of those various kinds of issues. And also you gave us a family overview simply now. However I’d like to undergo some others which can be particularly in all probability relevant to mothers. So I cringe to ask, however the first being, what about, like, athletic put on like yoga pants?

 

Leah: So yoga pants wasn’t as dangerous, really. In order that was one of many higher ones. We examined about, I believe, 32 or 33, completely different yoga pants, athletic put on as a result of that was a query I had. I’m like yoga pants, you already know what I imply? I put on them actually on daily basis, it’s sort of like my outfit, it needs to be like a uniform. And I do know every day, I’m carrying yoga pants, some shirt that’s actually comfy, and my hair is in a extremely messy bun, I received a number of hair, so this all goes up in a bun. So we checked out about 32 of them, we discovered 25% of these yoga pants had detectable fluorine within the crotch. Now, after I first began testing them, I used to be testing the knees, you’re not going to search out it within the knees. How do I do know? I examined to search out it. After which I believed to myself, the place would I put it? And so I had the lab repeat a few them with the crotch, bam, that’s the place it was. So about 25%. Now, not one of the natural manufacturers, should you look in…not one of the natural manufacturers that we had examined, yeah, all of them had non-detect at 10 components per million, so that’s secure.

 

We did a like a not our favourite, higher, and finest class of these 32. Those that we discovered detectable there within the prime of the what we might not suggest, then there have been ones within the center, which had been artificial supplies so we didn’t discover something in them. So be at liberty to purchase them. After which for these of you who need the natural model that’s in the perfect on the very backside. Yeah, so we tried to sort of divide it in three for everybody to have the ability to determine that out as properly. So this was not as dangerous, however you’ll discover it within the crotch, which might be…it may be comparable in different pants too if you concentrate on it, prefer it’s going to be within the crotch. Now, I don’t know is the reply to that. I could sooner or later, perhaps begin testing underwear and swimsuits and stuff like that, however should you…to find out about that, I don’t find out about these but as a result of I’ve been requested that query. So I’m simply going to inform you I don’t find out about some fits and underwear but. However interval underwear, I do know.

 

Katie: Effectively, that’s encouraging that there are these good choices accessible as a result of I used to be not going to be prepared to surrender my yoga pants. However that does result in different athletic put on. So let’s speak about sports activities bras after which, because you talked about it, additionally interval underwear.

 

Leah: Yeah, so sports activities bras are fairly problematic. We discovered…so you already know your sports activities bra, there’s just like the outer a part of it after which there’s the inside half. So the inside half is that, like, sort of pores and skin shade mesh that’s subsequent to your bra, which can be subsequent to your breast. We discovered detections in 65% of sports activities bras in that mesh space. And after I advised my advisors about this, a number of them they had been pediatricians that had been, you already know, serving to me assessment this one particular one, they had been involved and extra of our advisors had been involved as a result of that is the mesh that’s proper up in opposition to your breasts. Now, right here’s the situation I’m pondering of as a result of this was my life and nonetheless might be my life. You realize, you’re a brand new mother, proper, and your child goes down for a nap, and so what do you do? You run off and also you do a exercise or one thing like that as finest as you possibly can and you already know you’ve received like 40 minutes to an hour, proper? So that you’re figuring out, figuring out, after which sweating up a storm and you bought your sports activities bra on after which, you hear the noise, proper, and also you’re like, “Shoot,” didn’t get the time, so that you didn’t have time for a bathe. So you then run upstairs, you go get the infant, and increase, breastfeed. That’s the situation I’m frightened about.

 

So in case you are a breastfeeding mom, please watch out and take a look at my investigation for the not our favourite, higher, and finest. We discovered them in 65% of those merchandise, it was not every thing. It was arduous due to the high-impact bras, there weren’t as many good high-impact bras, however one among them that I did discover that I believe individuals are going to be enthusiastic about is Goal. Goal has really been doing a number of work on PFAS and textiles and you can inform as a result of after I examined in opposition to that, they got here out clear. So should you’re a giant busted girl, which I’m, my ladies are fairly giant…If you happen to’re a giant busted girl you don’t need, like, black eyes when you’re figuring out, proper, Goal’s a kind of manufacturers. It’s not natural, clearly, it’s stuffed with artificial polyester and yada, yada, yada, however we didn’t discover detectable PFAS within the sports activities bras there. In order that they’re referred to as All In Movement or one thing like that, in order that was good. And generally I simply preserve testing till I discover one thing that I can put on, you already know, and that was a kind of points the place I simply stored testing. That was sports activities bras. In order that’s one you wish to look on mamavation.com. If you happen to go there, we’ve received all the checks listed proper there on all of the manufacturers that we discovered.

 

Katie: What about interval underwear? That is after I personally don’t have any expertise with as a result of I’m a giant fan of the menstrual cup as a substitute for the sustainability, which I do know interval underwear are as properly, however what did you discover when it got here to those?

 

Leah: It was fairly dangerous really after we regarded into interval underwear, we had…I’m making an attempt to recollect what number of we examined, it was over 20. I believe we solely discovered six manufacturers with out detectable ranges. Yeah, solely six, and the toughest half the place there are some manufacturers that really market themselves as PFAS-free. I’m not gonna say which model it’s however it’s your decision to have the ability to determine that out, you’ll go on their web site, and they’re going to present you scientific testing on how they will show that they’re PFAS-free. However you need to have my eyes to know what you’re . You take a look at that scientific research, proper, that they despatched off to the lab, the detection degree is lots increased than mine. So I take a look at at 10 components per million. They had been testing at 50, so you already know what I imply, like, I can’t make any statements about that. However I’d say there’s some humorous enterprise occurring in that.

 

And the issue is…I, you already know, interviewed a number of the CEOs that had the safer interval underwear. And primarily what’s taking place is what they mentioned to me is you have got lots of people on this business that don’t actually have a number of expertise with textiles. Like, they don’t know lots about what they’re doing. They’re nice entrepreneurs, they’re nice, at a number of different issues, however they don’t actually know lots concerning the processing of textiles. And should you don’t know, you don’t know what to say, you don’t know what to ask, after which she was additionally telling me that, she’s like, you may get Oeko-Tex cloth, so to talk, and ship it to the producer, after which the producer can be like, “Oh, would you like waterproofing on that?” And so they know that should you put that on it destroys every thing, like all of the accreditations and all that stuff, however they provide it anyhow. And so you already know, should you’re somebody who doesn’t perceive the textile business, it’s possible you’ll fall into that class.

 

So what I discovered in interval underwear wasn’t ranges that regarded like…there was a couple of manufacturers that had ranges that had been actually excessive, proper, I’d be like, “Whoa.” However then there have been different manufacturers that had ranges that had been low. And so whenever you take a look at that, it appears like extra of a contamination challenge than it appears like an deliberately added challenge. However I don’t know what, you already know, the distinction is when it’s proper up by your vagina. I simply don’t know, and no person is aware of. In order that’s why we had been in a position to do the classes we had been and I consider it was…it may be seven now as a result of we preserve testing. And we preserve including to that report, you already know, at any time when we do discover one thing, and people who ship me interval underwear need me to check it, simply if you wish to do this I can take a look at stuff, simply preserve it in its authentic packaging. I simply don’t need you contaminating it. However yeah, we’ve had neighborhood members purchase extra interval underwear that they need, they ship it off to me after which we simply go take a look at it within the lab simply to verify we all know out of all of the manufacturers that we are able to see. That’s not a very good one.

 

Katie: Gotcha. I’ll be certain that we hyperlink to those as properly as a result of I do know you’ve written about all of those and other people can go search for the particular particulars. So for you guys listening, wellnessmama.fm could have all these hyperlinks. One other related one for mothers, what about ketchup? As a result of I do know for lots of children, it is a favourite so as to add to a number of stuff. So what about ketchup?

 

Leah: Ketchup was simply heartbreaking. Ketchup, the overwhelming majority of the ketchups that I examined, all had whole fluorine in it. Now, I wished to elucidate to everyone that I did whole fluorine checks on the overwhelming majority of those ketchup manufacturers. I didn’t do natural fluorine, however let me inform you sort of what I’ve been doing. I’ve despatched about 350 issues off to the lab over the past 2 years, a number of testing. So that offers you an thought of how a lot testing I’ve accomplished. And I’d say 80% of that testing, we’ve accomplished natural fluorine on. And after I first began, I did whole fluorine. So I wasn’t as savvy as I’m now to know concerning the distinction between the pure fluorine and the natural fluorine, which is artificial, and also you wanted to separate that. And so, you already know, my scientific advisors got here in and helped me with that after which we began, so ketchup is an older one.

 

However we discovered a ton of whole fluorine in ketchup, besides for 2 manufacturers. We didn’t discover it in Heinz, and that shocked me. So I used to be like, right here’s the common Heinz within the glass bottle, nothing, within the plastic bottle, nothing, within the little ketchup packets, nothing. We didn’t discover it, you already know, in any Heinz product. After which we didn’t discover it in 365 Entire Meals Natural Ketchup. So it made me assume that that may be white-labeled, perhaps white-labeled Heinz ketchup, have you learnt what I’m saying? However then each different ketchup that we examined, we discovered detectable ranges, and a number of them had been actually near 10. So it was like they had been proper there, proper?

 

So right here’s the reply to that, of all the issues that I’ve despatched off to the lab, they’ve been ready…they usually do whole fluorine on every thing, however then we run one other take a look at and it’s a take a look at for fluoride, proper? And what they do is that they search for fluoride after which they’re in a position to do a calculation to deduct the whole fluorine quantity from the fluoride quantity, and that’s natural fluorine, in order that they do this calculation for you. I’ve by no means seen, not potential, however I’ve simply by no means seen fluoride, greater than two, perhaps three components per million. You realize, so a number of manufacturers will wish to say, in the event that they wish to say it’s whole fluorine, I’ve not discovered that, you already know, fluoride to be a giant factor and something, you already know, I believe they wish to assume that it’s nevertheless it’s within the stuff that I’ve examined, we’ve not. I did ship two of these manufacturers as a result of two manufacturers folks had been actually, actually…they actually wished to find out about.

 

And that was Primal and Annie’s. And I despatched Annie’s and Primal out for natural fluorine testing after we put this up, they usually had been just about the identical quantity. So I believe that we’re discovering a number of indications. That’s the one the place I’ve to say learn it, however perceive the testing isn’t full. And I do plan on updating that individual investigation, including extra manufacturers, and doing the entire shebang, it’s simply in all probability not going to be till subsequent 12 months someday, proper? And I wish to give these manufacturers a while to work on it. So I do know a number of them do find out about my testing and whether or not…I don’t know in the event that they’re making any strikes, as a result of they haven’t come to me and mentioned they’re making any strikes. In order that’s unlucky, however I’ll say in different manufacturers…or different industries, there’s manufacturers making some fairly hefty strikes right here.

 

Katie: So, to be continued, and I’ll put hyperlinks to the present ones so folks can have these as a place to begin. And I do know that there’s extra to return in different classes as properly. So folks can keep updated with you to maintain a watch out for that. It additionally makes me curious if it’s potential to get folks examined for these compounds. And I additionally marvel like, is there even a…should you’re going to weigh the chance and advantages, is it even price doing? We don’t know how one can get them out of the physique and we all know it’s good to keep away from them. Like, is it price testing if it’s even potential? Or is it higher simply to know they’re dangerous and keep away from them?

 

Leah: So I want I’d have accomplished that after I didn’t end that query for you. I’ve a take a look at downstairs, there’s a model new take a look at that got here out. I believe it’s referred to as Empower FX. So I’m going to should double verify on that. However there’s a model new take a look at the place you possibly can prick your finger and ship it to a lab. Now, it is a huge enormous deal as a result of it’s not costly and it’s accessible to everyone. So let me provide you with some background. So I wished to do a physique burden, you already know, scientific research. And I had a number of scientists concerned and we sort of talked about it. And what we realized was, it was near unimaginable to do that as a result of your physique doesn’t launch it. So, you already know, it’s not like with polyphenols and, you already know, you wait per week later and also you simply don’t eat them or put them into your physique, they’ll be much less. That’s not the case of PFAS. So it’s actually arduous to check in your physique, actually, actually tough to do these comparisons, so we ended up not doing it.

 

At that time, we had been wanting right into a lab that was about $1,000 a take a look at. Oh, yeah, loopy. So I’ll inform you my pleasure when I discovered a model who’s doing this for $250. And also you’re doing it at house. What we had been going to look into was sending folks to a draw lab after which sending it off to a lab in Canada. And prefer it was all of this, you already know, strategic, loopy stuff that we needed to do. However now there’s a firm, and I wish to say Empower FX, and we’ll hyperlink that down beneath. However they partnered with Eurofins and Eurofins is a humongous $6 billion lab all over the world. So it’s a extremely…that’s an awesome partnership. And so Eurofins is the companion on this they usually’re producing these little take a look at kits. So you possibly can take a look at your self, it’s a bit of drip of blood, ship it off, and I consider they’re testing for between 16 to 30 completely different PFAS, however the most typical ones that you just’re going to search out in water.

 

Katie: Good to know, I’ll put hyperlinks to that as properly if it’s in your website, or I’ll get that information from you for people who find themselves…

 

Leah: It’s not but.

 

Katie: Okay.

 

Leah: You’ve received it first.

 

Katie: How thrilling. And as I anticipated, our time, in fact, flew by as a result of we all the time have such enjoyable conversations.

 

Leah: How has it been 45 minutes? Oh my gosh.

 

Katie: So we’ll simply should do extra rounds of this as increasingly investigations come out. However simply on the finish, I like to ask if there’s any parting recommendation you wish to give to our listeners at present, may very well be associated to this or one thing completely unrelated to all of the mothers listening?

 

Leah: Oh, you already know, by way of these things, I’d say don’t sweat the small stuff, proper? I imply, I’ve been doing toxic-free for seven years now, perhaps eight. And that’s one of many issues that I’ve discovered, you already know, I wish to know what absolutely the worst issues are and I’ll keep away from these. And all the different issues, I’ll based mostly on my emotional wants at that second, proper? And so, by way of like, whenever you’re enthusiastic about issues, don’t freak out about one thing you employ as soon as a month, proper? What you wish to take a look at are the massive dailies, proper, every day exposures. So don’t sweat the small stuff by way of, you already know, don’t freak out over some factor that you just’re going to be consuming, you already know, or consuming as soon as a month. So go off to your pal’s home, eat the pizza, and drink, and the cake and, you already know, take pleasure in your self. As a result of the stress which you can placed on folks based mostly on being afraid of all these things, I believe, could be worse on you total than I believe the precise chemical substances themselves and that’s what I’ve discovered over time.

 

And so defend your area, defend your soul, so to talk, from being too afraid. I believe that there’s a distinction between having a wholesome worry of one thing that’s harmful, you already know what I’m saying, and avoiding that since you’re good. And in addition entering into the world of it would being like a disordered pondering course of, you already know, the disordered pondering means of every thing is poisonous isn’t a very good place so that you can be. I need you to take pleasure in your life. And you already know, comply with folks like Katie and I for, you already know, directions on what to do after which simply let it go. You realize, that’s my recommendation is, you already know, management what you bought within the house, exit and discover the world and luxuriate in your self, and take a look at to not let your craziness sink into different locations is my finest recommendation.

 

After which simply, you already know, attempt to keep abreast of this, however you already know, that is a kind of points the place individuals are not likely contacting their elected officers about this. And I do know there’s lots of people particularly in like Republican districts and stuff like that, they’re not listening to sufficient from you, as a result of they might be doing extra in the event that they heard from you. And I actually really feel like for lots of ladies who’re residing in Republic, congressional districts and stuff like that, name them, allow them to know you’re involved about this. Allow them to know that you just care, and also you care about them, have you learnt what I’m saying? If you happen to’re voting for them, and that is your challenge, guarantee that they know that that is vital to them. As a result of I used to work for elected officers a few years in the past and I’ll say that when the ladies begin calling up, and once they begin pushing and honking on the doorways, they received their little strollers and stuff, you already know you’re in bother. It’s the senior residents and the mothers and also you don’t wish to piss off both of these teams. However you already know, that is simply one thing that your elected officers want to listen to extra from you on as a result of there’s a number of states and after I say lots, I imply a number of states proper now which can be contemplating like 200 items of laws on PFAS. They should hear from you.

 

Katie: Yeah, I’ve mentioned that so many occasions on this podcast that mothers are such a pressure of nature and that widespread coverage occurs when the typical mother adjustments her thoughts and will get concerned and that’s on so many various ranges. And I’ve seen it on an area degree. Truly, the place I used to reside, it was attention-grabbing, on this state, homebirth was technically not authorized for some time, and a bunch of mothers I do know lobbied and received it modified. However I believe it doesn’t should be…I believe we frequently don’t do it as a result of we predict it must be this enormous quantity, this enormous groundswell, it really doesn’t as a result of I additionally used to web page for representatives and it doesn’t take that many calls and letters earlier than they concentrate. So I’d say don’t underestimate…particularly on stuff like this that pertains to our youngsters, don’t underestimate your energy to vary that. And in addition to echo your different recommendation, be careful for what you possibly can but in addition notice the physique is sensible and adaptable and designed to heal and keep away from the worst of the worst, however don’t let it rule your life or turn out to be tense. And that applies to meals, that applies to what we work together with in our every day lives, and provides your self some grace on the finish of the day too.

 

Leah: Love you, woman. You’re so nice at summarizing my level.

 

Katie: Proper again at you, and thanks for the time at present. It’s all the time, in fact, so enjoyable to get to speak with you. Like I mentioned, we’ll do it once more as increasingly information turns into accessible. However thanks for being right here.

 

Leah: After all. It’s my pleasure. Thanks for having me, Katie.

 

Katie: And thanks, as all the time, to all of you for listening and sharing your most useful sources, your time, your power and your consideration with us at present. We’re each so grateful that you just did and I hope that you’ll be part of me once more on the subsequent episode of “The Wellness Mama Podcast.”

 

If you happen to’re having fun with these interviews, would you please take two minutes to go away a score or assessment on iTunes for me? Doing this helps extra folks to search out the podcast, which suggests much more mothers and households may gain advantage from the knowledge. I actually recognize your time, and thanks as all the time for listening.



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