For a lot of Filipino Individuals, SPAM isn’t only a beloved ingredient in a well-liked breakfast dish: It’s a marker of Filipino identification. However after months of reporting on the canned meat and its cultural that means, Gabrielle Berbey, an affiliate producer for The Experiment podcast, got here to comprehend that SPAM’s historical past was way more complicated than she’d initially thought. “SPAM, in my household, had this nearly lore-like high quality about it,” Berbey says. But for others, over time, SPAM got here to symbolize the Philippines’ dependence on fatty, salty canned meals imported from abroad. “It seems that lots of people are wrestling with SPAM’s legacy.”

Berbey just lately joined Julia Longoria, the host of The Experiment, for a dialog on Twitter Areas to debate the podcast’s three-part miniseries, SPAM: How the American Dream Acquired Canned. They have been joined by Dave Jorgenson—a video producer, editor, and author maybe finest referred to as “the Washington Publish TikTok Man”—who shared his personal lifelong affinity for SPAM, and insights on its cultural resonance in america. This dialog has been condensed and edited for size and readability.

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Julia Longoria: Gabrielle, we simply spent—my gosh, how lengthy has it been? Six months, a minimum of—reporting on a reasonably meaty subject: SPAM, the canned meat, as a type of image of the American dream. It conjures a whole lot of sturdy feelings for lots of various folks. However our story actually begins with you and your loved ones within the Philippines. How do you even start to clarify how SPAM grew to become this enormous, larger-than-life factor in your and your loved ones’s life?

Gabrielle Berbey: I grew up within the Bay Space, round a whole lot of Filipino household and mates, and all of us love SPAM. We eat it for breakfast—SPAM, rice, and eggs is a basic Filipino breakfast. Now we have SPAM in a whole lot of our dishes. One factor that made me inquisitive about SPAM, in contrast to another basic Filipino dishes, is that SPAM, in my household, had this nearly lore-like high quality about it that needed to do with American historical past. The story of SPAM in my household began throughout World Warfare II, when my grandfather was a younger boy within the Philippines, and he was hiding from the Japanese for a big a part of his childhood. He remembers American GIs coming in and driving by the roads of provinces and throwing cans of SPAM at him, and all the children chasing after the American vehicles being like, Oh my God, the Individuals are right here. They’re going to save lots of us from the Japanese military, they usually’re giving us SPAM. He would inform this story to my mother when she was little. After which they’d inform that story to me. So the primary line of questioning was: Why did SPAM go from the arms of the American guys to my grandfather to then turning into this factor that we take into account a Filipino delicacy? That was simply the very small entryway into this subject that ended up turning into far bigger than I feel I ever imagined.

Longoria: I keep in mind, Gaby, once we first began this story and also you have been telling me about it, you have been like, “I don’t eat SPAM,” which was so intriguing to me. You’re embarking on this journey to determine why your loved ones loves this. However now you don’t eat it. How do you now really feel about SPAM and the significance of it inside your loved ones?

Berbey: A fast historical past lesson: Wherever American GIs landed throughout World Warfare II across the Pacific—Guam, Hawaii, the Philippines—they left SPAM of their wake. SPAM took maintain in these locations and have become a ubiquitous a part of diets. And clearly, you can not blame solely SPAM for this, however in these locations, there’s additionally a extremely excessive prevalence of coronary heart illness and diabetes. My grandfather died of diabetes problems. About one in 5 Filipinos are diabetic and prediabetic. You see related statistics all around the Pacific. So I obtained older and began questioning extra in regards to the function of this canned meat and what it represents about American imperialism.

I talked to meals historians about how meals can be utilized as a type of assimilation, but additionally management. It seems that lots of people are wrestling with SPAM’s legacy within the locations the place SPAM took maintain. In order I used to be making calls to meals historians and poets, I discovered a SPAM poet, Craig Santos Perez. I extremely advocate his poems. I even talked to a well being clinic in Hawaii that was educating Hawaii locals the right way to make home made, more healthy SPAM. It’s a part of this bigger food-sovereignty motion. So I nonetheless really feel fairly sophisticated about it. However that actually simply touches the tip of the iceberg as to what SPAM represents in American historical past and the place it exhibits up.

Longoria: SPAM is just like the Forrest Gump of American historical past, the place it simply appears to maintain popping up. It appears to symbolize such various things. For some folks like your grandfather, SPAM is freedom, after which for others, it’s just like the image of meals dependence, the type of darker, unintended penalties of American affect on islands just like the Philippines. It will get much more sophisticated once we inform the story of a strike in Episode 2. We go on a complete journey. I ponder, for you, Gabrielle, what was your favourite a part of reporting this out?

Berbey: I’ve to say the SPAM museum, in Austin, Minnesota. SPAM just isn’t a Filipino meals; it’s an American meat created in the course of the Nice Despair by Hormel. They’ve a SPAM museum there now, which sort of appears to be like like a Willy Wonka manufacturing unit. There are SPAM cans flying above your head and music and colourful lights. And the those who work there, they name themselves the SPAMbassadors.

Longoria: After we walked into this actually SPAM-shaped constructing—they attempt to make it appear like a SPAM can—we have been greeted by this one that tells us with a totally straight face that she’s the SPAManager. For me, what was most intriguing was the second after I thought, You recognize, this isn’t only one episode. That is going to be one thing to essentially sink our tooth into. The oldsters on the SPAM museum and people in Austin, Minnesota, who have been so pleasant and open with us, once we requested them in regards to the strike that occurred within the ’80s, would simply shut down. [Editor’s note: The strike led to SPAM boycotts across the nation and lasted for two years, at times erupting in violence.] It was clear that we have been touching this actually painful spot on this city’s historical past, they usually didn’t need to discuss it. It’s wild how this thriller meat actually has touched so many lives, whether or not optimistic or destructive, for therefore many individuals.

We’re additionally joined by one other one that has a powerful love of SPAM, Dave Jorgenson, of The Washington Publish. Dave, welcome. One of many pleasures of The Washington Publish’s TikTok account is watching how SPAM pops up in these surprising locations. Are you able to describe a number of the movies that you simply’ve made the place SPAM is featured?

Dave Jorgenson: I began a quarantine TikTok thread in March 2020, and I began incorporating my buddy Sam—who’s only a can of SPAM with the P Sharpied out. I at all times had an appreciation for SPAM, each paradoxically and genuinely, and so I’ve been incorporating Sam all through. I give him a hand at one level, like a bodily, tiny hand. He just lately obtained a second hand to a lot fanfare, a minimum of for me. He has googly eyes as nicely. He’s voiced by my colleague’s husband, who’s additionally named Sam, and he has a British accent. Sam might be in each 20 TikToks or so at this level.

Longoria: How did you come to like SPAM? Do you’ve gotten a SPAMorigin?

Jorgenson: I do have a SPAMorigin story! The primary time I ate SPAM was at a Boy Scout camp I used to work at. It was within the Florida Keys. I normally describe it to folks as “it’s like in case you did Survivor for per week.” Each week we’d take out a crew from a special a part of the nation to this island within the Keys. We had a specific amount of meals that we might have, and we have been presupposed to encourage the younger Scouts, aged 14 to 17, to cook dinner their very own meals. One factor they by no means tousled was the SPAM. I inspired them to attend ’til the final day to cook dinner SPAM—when tenting, it’s one of the best meals. As a result of in case you like bacon, you in all probability like SPAM. You simply reduce it, then put it in a pan. Generally we’d cook dinner it with mac and cheese. Generally we cooked with the powdered eggs. It was the distinction between being sort of hungry and actually hungry, whether or not or not we’ve got this will of SPAM for 2 days. So I got here to fairly love SPAM.

I don’t understand how many individuals are conscious of this, however earlier than our quarantine TikToks, we did a pumpkin-spice-SPAM TikTok in 2019.

Berbey: Did you attempt it?

Jorgenson: I did. Uncooked, which isn’t perfect … however in case you cook dinner it up—you understand, slice it, then fry it—it’s positive.

Longoria: Do you’ve gotten any favourite SPAM recipes? What is an efficient strategy to cook dinner SPAM?

Jorgenson: I’m a primary SPAM eater. I simply want it reduce actually skinny and fried. I do suppose SPAM sushi is scrumptious. I feel it is likely to be referred to as one thing else, nevertheless it’s actually good. Any sort of SPAM with rice is scrumptious.

Berbey: For me, it’s SPAM, rice, and egg, or SPAM fried rice. You sort of want the rice to chop the saltiness of it. In any other case, it’s a little overwhelming.

Jorgenson: Oh yeah, it’s value mentioning that my physician was like, “You in all probability mustn’t eat any extra SPAM.”

Longoria: The commercials for SPAM over time are simply unbelievable. That they had one the place a bit of lettuce was singing a love tune to SPAM for spicing up its life. However then there was additionally a boy band, proper, Gaby?

Berbey: Yeah, so the corporate was principally simply looking for methods to market SPAM to completely different cultural teams. Within the Philippines, for instance, Filipinos, we love boy bands.

Longoria: I imply, who doesn’t?

Berbey: The corporate created a boy band for Filipinos referred to as ALL4SPAM, which simply sings about SPAM.

Jorgenson: So I’ve a principle about all that. Are you conversant in the Monopoly spin-off video games? There’s actually Socialism Monopoly. There’s all these actually particular variations they put out. I feel this was the identical actually good transfer, nearly a advertising and marketing ploy. I obtained that pumpkin spice spam. The day it got here out, it was bought out throughout the nation. I don’t suppose they have been ready for the quantity of those who have been going to purchase it.

Berbey: I’m curious, Dave, the group that you simply grew up with, did they eat SPAM too? After I was rising up round Filipinos within the Bay, like a whole lot of Filipinos, they ate SPAM. However then lots of people in school that weren’t Filipino or Pacific Islander, they didn’t actually know what SPAM was, or they thought it was bizarre that we have been consuming it.

Jorgenson: It’s an important query, as a result of the reply is just about nearly solely no. However yeah, we didn’t actually have it rising up. It’s simply one thing you’ll see within the retailer. So actually, the obsession did start on this camp within the Florida Keys. And since then, I’ve at all times been like, “We’re going tenting; let’s get a can of SPAM.” And I’m at all times met with “Okay?”

Berbey: I used to be speaking to a reporter at Minnesota Public Radio, and she or he was saying that within the Midwest, it was very a lot a working-class meals. Her dad and mom have been coal miners. So she was saying that they ate SPAM out of necessity, as a result of it was this low cost meat there.

SPAM is definitely actually costly within the Philippines. That’s why Filipino members of the family in america will ship SPAM. As a result of it’s cheaper. It’s thought-about a delicacy. It’s a deal with. It’s like, Oh, okay, we did one thing good. We get SPAM. It’s positively not thought-about a straightforward, low cost type of protein. In locations like Hawaii and Guam, folks will peddle SPAM for decrease costs.

Jorgenson: So I’m within the fallacious place.